[0:00] Narrator: This week on From Probe to Practice.
[0:03] Dr. Tom Sellers: In 10 years if our profession keeps expanding I could see way less surgeries too right because we're in this zone where my favorite thing to do is say you don't need surgery right and at the base minimum it's like let's before we start cutting stuff out or putting titanium in let's see how you can do by using your own body's innate ability to heal,
[0:26] Narrator: An Advanced MSK Ultrasound Center podcast, From Probe to Practice, hosted by Ryan Martin and Colin Rigney, produced by Jason Kitza at NGG, NeedGreaters.com.
[0:45] Colin Rigney: Okay all right welcome everybody this is episode 13 of the Probe to Practice podcast brought to you by the advanced musculoskeletal ultrasound center AMSKU.com today we have a special guest with us he's a board certified double board certified primary care sports physician here in the greater Phoenix area His name is Dr. Tom Sellers, and he's got quite the story to share with you in terms of where he started, where he came from, his background, and we're going to dig into a few things, but you did your residency at Creighton, correct? The Sports Medicine Fellowship at UNLV, and so, Tom, I want to turn it over to you. Just share a little bit more about yourself. I want to get into, we have some things we're going to get into today. your journey as a physician and
[1:39] Dr. Tom Sellers: You
[1:40] Colin Rigney: Know can you talk about a little bit about you know of course we're a musculoskeletal ultrasound you know focus background here but you share a little bit about your journey into the field like what got you into medicine in the first place
[1:55] Dr. Tom Sellers: Yeah well thank you so much for having me I'm very excited to be on here like Colin you know you work with us you know weekly I see you and you just do great work I love this podcast by the way I've listened to every episode I love what you're doing it's a really awesome niche but also so much expansion in this area this field so thank you so much for having me really excited to get into some cool topics for me really it starts with my dad so I'm in private practice with my dad it's Sellers Sports medicine and family practice too although that's getting a little less and less right we're doing a ton of sports medicine a huge percentage of our practices sports medicine and when I was a kid I saw my dad doing his thing on the sideline covering sports just thought he was superman right and it was so amazing to see him just love what he did to see him how he interacted with athletes the camaraderie the sports environment, all that kind of stuff. So that was when I was, you know, kind of a young kid, I got to see him in that environment. And then he transitioned more and more into the primary care setting, as he went on, and eventually started to get into ultrasound. And I saw him kind of go through different seasons of life of, hey, I'm loving this to, hey, it's getting worse and worse right in terms of reimbursements in terms of you know insurance -based normal like this is the greater medical system care but then I've also seen him transition to into a more cash -based practice and a more ultrasound -based orthobiologics regenerative medicine field and find his spark again and get really interested and excited again and So I've seen him kind of develop as I was a kid and into adulthood and into my profession. Right. And it's been really amazing to see him, you know, through all those seasons, through all those different journeys. And it's been it's really excited me in this field. Right. And so when I went into medical school, I definitely was thinking I kind of want to do sports medicine. Right now, at that time, the landscape didn't look like it does today. it's definitely changed a lot and it's changing it's ever changing but I knew I wanted to do sports and the more that I saw him do diagnostic ultrasound guided injections the more I was like this is just so cool like this is like a very fun thing too right like he was having fun the patients were getting better
[4:33] Ryan Martin: Better outcomes accuracy all that kind of stuff So for me, I, you know, I saw my dad and that was the biggest primary driver for me getting into the medical field, in particular sports medicine and non -surgical ortho.
[4:46] Colin Rigney: I was just gonna ask curious like did you have a particular age that you realized you wanted to like what was it for you what age what was there a moment was there or was it just kind of you growing up in the environment
[5:00] Dr. Tom Sellers: You know what's funny is a lot of times I hear these stories and I listen to podcasts and different professionals in this field and just in a general physician field and profession I see them say like super young right and I did have that super young kind of like hey this seems interesting this seems cool I like the how medicine was practiced I liked how you had to learn a lot. You had to use deductive reasoning. I loved how you could have to, you know, figure things out, try to start with, you know, a bunch of different information, chew on it, and then spit out a diagnosis and a treatment plan. I loved that. But to be honest with you, I wanted to do a bunch of stuff. I took, and my dad was great at like not making me do this or not say like, hey, you have to do this or I want you to be a doctor and nothing else. I love music. I love business. I loved history. I loved all these different subjects. I played in bands, rock bands in eighth grade, high school, college, opened up for local people in college. And as much as you can fall into medicine, I, you know, I was kind of like, well, I was in college. I was like, you know, I was a psychology major, philosophy minor, was taking my prereqs, but loving music, wanted to be a professional musician, all that kind of stuff. but then I just it kept calling that I was kept calling I was like I want to do more I want to do medicine I feel like that's just where I'm supposed to be right but it's an interesting I had an interesting background because I love the art of medicine and I love just the arts right and so for me it was a weird kind of that's not exactly like hey I've been I've been shooting for this thing since I was five years old and doing every single thing in my power to get there but I also think it's gotten me a unique perspective a human perspective with my patients and with the greater you know medicine community that's for sure it's a little different path but you know I thought that it was you know I didn't there's times and maybe it was that little time period like dad I don't want to do what you do you know kind of thing like that kind of little period of time it could have been that but honestly like I it wasn't always medicine in for me but it was always kind of in the background like hey I feel like and then eventually I was I was guns blazing all in yeah
[7:22] Colin Rigney: Well you know you and I worked together and for a few years now so I see the creative side like showing in a lot of how you just show up for your patients and how you apply reasoning and evidence to support a clinical decision you know, when we're talking and you're working up a case or we're just running things by each other. you know, see I a lot of similarities with you and your dad, but I also like you're very much like, you're very much your own person when it comes to how you, your path, right. And where you are so far. you know, let's talk a little bit about, okay. Residency fellowship. You knew, you knew, you knew you were going to do sports when you went into med school. Was that you're we you already knew that you didn't get to like year three or four and decide
[8:18] Dr. Tom Sellers: I was almost positive that I wanted to do primary care sports in particular sports medicine and non -surgical ortho there was only a small bit of me with my psychology background that thought of psychiatry so it's kind of funny I either wanted the more brick and mortar border like bones and tissue or the almost like a little bit esoteric kind of like higher level things and of course psychiatry still has a lot of like molecular biology and hormone pathways and stuff like that but a lot more kind of super tentorial stuff versus the brick and mortar stuff I actually like both and it's funny that I ended up into a primary care sports because I still see psych right I still see that in my practice I still see you know there's a huge psychological component to pain to injury right to being away from sport because of injury be away from your functional like due to functional deficits and pain not being able to do what you love right and so it's actually kind of funny that I ended up here anyway because I still use that right now I don't see high level psychiatric disorders and inpatient psych and all that stuff but I still get a little you know swath of that in my practice which I which I love so yeah
[9:39] Colin Rigney: No that's great yeah and it's everybody has their own path right and you have yours and Ryan has his and I have mine and how we all got to where we are you know now with, you know, I, I'm saying this knowing like the influence your dad has in your life and that sort of thing. And so your fellowship at UNLV, can you talk to us a little bit about that? Cause it's very, it's, you know, what you've told me, it sounds like it was very impactful in the sports you covered, but also your mentors and your introduction to MSK ultrasound. And can you just talk to us a little bit about how that year impacted you, what you learned? You know, what you saw that you wanted to implement once you got out?
[10:29] Dr. Tom Sellers: Yeah, I can't say enough about UNLV and that fellowship program. Just to backtrack a little bit, I actually loved ultrasound as well before that, in even med school and residency due to my dad, due to people like Ryan, like Ryan was working with my dad at the time, with some of that time and just having just seeing them bounce ideas off each other checking on anatomy checking on pathology and learning together in many ways I'm sure right because that was a few good years ago I just loved that collaborative piece to it I loved the ultrasound guided injection piece to it I love the procedural stuff and so that sparked it UNLV that program was amazing for the diagnostic stuff. and we did, I did a lot of injection based stuff as well. And ultrasound got injections, of course, and learned that. but what they were really great is that like, Hey, the base, your base has to be, diagnostics and the better diagnostician you are and ultrasonographer you are, the better, proceduralist you will be. Right. Yeah.
[11:33] Colin Rigney: So you got a headstart in fellowship with your ultrasound skills. How has that grown and changed over the past couple of years for you.
[11:43] Dr. Tom Sellers: Yeah. And so for me, you know, I learned a great base there at ultrasound, Diagnostic ultrasound and Therapeutic as well, our injection base. And that was an amazing start. But, you know, you're drinking from the fire hose. It's a year fellowship. You know, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of sports coverage, stuff like that. So you can't fit it all in there. You know, I learned a tremendous amount. It was a wonderful base but now coming out of school years later and right away working with my dad it's been kind of a little bit of an apprenticeship style learning to with him so he's a wealth of knowledge especially with the injection based yeah stuff and then working with you Colin like it's been amazing and working with AMSKU learning kind of backtracking to some of the diagnosis and also just really trying to be better at therapeutic injections right and ultrasound guided injections so that's been amazing for me it's been longitudinal that way too because they're my own patients I see them I scan them and then I get to do the injection -based therapies on them so it's been amazing to learn through repetition that way but also to have a mentoring guide in my dad and then of course yourself Colin I've been working with you for years now and I've learned a tremendous amount out of fellowship because what I learned in fellowship was great but now it's just exponentially better years later but still it's been exponentially better having worked with people that have shown me the way right have shown me how to do things correctly have shown me what this means and then just pure reps too right like seeing enough shoulders that you're getting better and it's a constant learning thing right like I'm sure you guys even as you're kind of more of the elite master level of this you're still learning stuff you're still seeing stuff that's like oh that's interesting that's new or that's I haven't seen that in years or I haven't seen you know this is a weird presentation of this illness or pathology right so I'm still learning but I have just had a tremendous leap in skill and I've been reading the book I read the book Who Not How love that book and you guys and AMSKU have been a great who for me and Who Not How is saying like if you don't know something if you have you know roadblocks or you can't quite get to the next level you have to find somebody to help you either do that job for you or in your case teach you right and so in my case teach and so you guys have been tremendous resource for me and AMSKU has been a tremendous resource for that because I don't think that you can learn this weekend seminars. I don't think you can learn this on your own as well. Maybe you could do a little bit, right? You can definitely have gains, but I really do think that one -on -one and structure and system -based learning is really the only way to be at an elite level in this kind of stuff.
[14:46] Colin Rigney: Yeah. Well, our audience has heard Ryan and I talk about this all the time in terms of what we see for the field and that sort of thing. I want to, first of all, ask you to do some self -reflection. I have a good understanding of where you're at, but I want to hear your thoughts on, number one, the biggest gap you've filled coming out of residency. It could be one specific technical thing that you learned in this apprenticeship, essentially, that you're in. And what would you say to the field? What would you say to your peers who aren't as far along as you and want to go this similar route? Like if you were going to mentor somebody, what would be some advice you'd give them when it comes to how the field of non -operative pain management orthopedics is trending? So two questions there. Yeah,
[15:43] Dr. Tom Sellers: That's a great question. I would answer. I would say that there's kind of an ultrasonography piece to that I want to touch on. And then there's the orthobiologics piece to that. For me, the ultrasound piece is, I don't think that I really realize and I don't think the general population in public and even medical professionals and physicians and even people in orthopedic surgery and sports specialists and all that kind of stuff. I don't think they understand the power that ultrasound can unlock for your clinic. I have been able to, most of it, you know, of course, there's other diagnostic modalities, MRI, things like that, x -ray, all that kind of stuff. Physical exams, huge. All these things are still tools in the tool belt. But ultrasound has unlocked prompt care for me. it's unlocked answering questions quickly and efficiently and correctly accurately right and so for me when I'm seeing someone in their pain continuum it could be a few weeks of pain it could be a few years of pain right but they're in pain I get to see them assess them physical exam and ultrasound them same day right and so what it's unlocked is this amazing nidus for me and the patient to discuss their issues, but most importantly, to diagnose, right? There's many times, and I don't think I really truly understood this until after fellowship, that ultrasound is all that I needed to get my answers, right? And there's many times where we need to do other diagnostic modalities and work it up in different ways. But I've been able many times to ultrasound someone and know what their main, at least their top three, one, two, three biggest issues say in the shoulder. So many times I can see every time pretty much I can see arthritic changes in the glenohumeral joint, AC joint, partial thickness, supraspinatus tears, bursopathy, all these different things that are playing a role into their, in their pain presentation. presentation, many times they've been looking for answers for weeks, months, days, whatever it is, I'm getting them in one part, one temporal slice of their pain. But now I'm immediately trying to get diagnostic certainty to what we can do to fix it and to change it and to have a therapeutic modality in place that can potentially help with pain and functional limitations. So I think that ultrasound has been awesome for that that's my first part is that ultrasound has truly shortened the time to actually getting to treating right to treating the patient's issue to trying to get us to let's think about
[18:35] Colin Rigney: Solutions
[18:36] Dr. Tom Sellers: Right way faster when before it was like and even in like when I was younger oh well you have knee pain well I'm gonna do an exam well it's probably this but let me get an x -ray. Okay. They get the x -ray a few days later, maybe a week later, maybe it takes a few days to a week. Now that's two weeks. Well, it looks like you have some arthritis, but I don't really know about the soft tissues. I don't know any particular stuff. I don't know all that kind of stuff. Okay. Well, maybe try physical therapy, six weeks of physical therapy. Oh, well, you're not really getting that much better. Okay. Let me get an MRI. Oh, they denied that insurance denied an MRI. Let me get a prior. Oh, now it's three weeks later, a month later. Right. And I don't, I've already lost track of how many weeks I'm saying right now but it's a long time right when really we can get a very accurate diagnosis in many cases with point of care ultrasound and so that's unlocked a tremendous amount for me and my patients right because they're in pain I want to shorten this right I want to get to diagnostic I mean I want to get good diagnosis to get to therapeutic solutions as fast as possible efficient accurate yes but I want them to get results you know as fast as they can right because they're in pain I know the psychological implications of that I know I know how much it just kind of sucks right like it sucks to be in pain right and so for me that ultrasound has been tremendous in unlocking that yeah
[19:58] Colin Rigney: Yeah it's something I especially in today's society where communication is everything is so condensed digital world like the world seems smaller communications faster. The idea of having to wait weeks for a diagnosis or a plan like is so outdated. Right. And so what I just heard from you is that is really sped up the time for you to evaluate, recommend and treat.
[20:24] Dr. Tom Sellers: Right.
[20:25] Colin Rigney: Absolutely. Do you have like, you know, is there do you have one procedure that like is your favorite thing to do? You know, that something that a few years ago wasn't in your wheelhouse as a result of what diagnostic ultrasound has been able to do for you?
[20:45] Dr. Tom Sellers: Yeah, I think that probably my favorite body part and one of the highest percentages of our practice that makes up our practice would probably be the shoulder in general, that body part, that joint. In particular, what ultrasound has unlocked is, you know, say even depending on the procedure for anesthetic purposes during the procedure, but also there's some pathophys going along that line super suprascapular nerve blocks that is a deep structure transversuscapular ligament all that kind of stuff we can see it all on the ultrasound we can see the nerve resting in that area and we can do a nerve block prior to procedures to help with patients pain we use that also with hydro shoulder hydrodilatations that are ultrasound guided that's been a huge thing for us too and that's there's studies that say that the suprascapular nerve is implicated in the pathophysiology of frozen shoulder right and so just the die just the block alone in that case could provide that there's studies that say that with physical therapy can provide better relief than PT alone right and so now we're saying okay we can do nerve blocks on very deep structures safely efficiently and accurately We have video evidence of where we're going. We can avoid all the structures we want to avoid. And that's amazing, right? And we have potential anesthesia for procedures. Like if I'm doing an intratendinous supraspinatus PRP, well, we can do a suprascapular nerve block before that, then go into the tendon. They have less pain or no pain during the procedure, right? And so I think that for me, obviously, I'm team ultrasound all the way. there's nothing that will ever get me away from that because there's no you know as I think you said before like or Don Buford maybe you're quoting Don Buford but you know there's no studies that say that ultrasound worsens the accuracy right ultrasound guidance worsens the accuracy and so and there's plenty of studies that say that it's way better right and so for me I'm team ultrasound I don't do any injections anywhere in the body that are not image guided in particular ultrasound guidance so I think that would be something that's changed is although some of my favorite body part is shoulder and we, and we probably do that the most in terms of percentage of our practice. And I love supraspinatus injections, rotator cuff injections, bursal injections, glenohumeral joint, all that kind of stuff. Been loving subscap lately. I don't know why. I just love, I love that injection. But the nerve blocks have been huge, right? Because a lot of times when we're doing injections, what the injectate is, like say, let's say platelet -rich plasma, for example, PRP, we don't want lidocaine in the same spot that's space occupying for the amount of space that we can do. That's potentially caustic and not great healthy for the platelets that we're putting in there, right? And so we can't do local lidocaine into the tissues that we're trying to put PRP in. And so that's been amazing. You know, we just did the other day, Colin, we did a tibial nerve block for posterior tibialis tendon. We did a nerve block, that kind of stuff without ultrasound, right? And there's arteries and veins right there. There's, you know, it's not very deep, but it's, I don't know how you do that with all the ultrasound. So I would say that for me, one thing that's really unlocked is the nerve block capabilities, nerve hydrodissections, nerve blocks prior to procedures, and some more or less therapeutic nerve blocks as well.
[24:17] Colin Rigney: Yeah. Jump in, Ryan.
[24:20] Ryan Martin: So Colin you stole my question I wanted to know what your favorite injection or technique was and as soon as you said that out your mouth I was like wow crap there goes my question but I do have a question I would be remiss if I didn't bring up the summit that we're going to have in december so december 5th we're going to have a global summit it's an annual summit that We have upward around 30 speakers that are coming to speak with us and talk about all sorts of different MSK ultrasound, orthobiologics, business integration, upping your social media footprint, everything like that. So the theme of the summit is where do you see healthcare or your specific niche within healthcare, where do you see it within 10 years? What is your prediction in the next 10 years of what you're doing now? How do you see that will change? So that's my question to you, Tom, like, where do you see your role, or how it changes in the next 10 years?
[25:27] Dr. Tom Sellers: That's a great question. So for me, 10 years, you know, I think that our field has, and I'm guarded in some of my responses, because we don't know, we've seen so much growth. And I would say since I, you know, in the five years ish that I've gotten out of fellowship, this is like an amazing time to be a doctor, right? Like this, especially a non -surgical orthopedic specialist like myself. It's just a tremendously fun time, right? And so what I think is going to change, I think we're going to get for sure better with exactly like orthobiologics and autologous products and autologous injections. I think we're going to get even better with that. I think we're going to know and we have great level one evidence for a lot of these different pathologies and problems that PRP say, MFAT, we have BMAC, all these things. I think we're going to see a growth in that where we're going to, we're going to turn up the dial a little bit on these things. We're going to see research show exactly how things are, how many cell count, cell count, you know, platelet count, all these things. I think we're going to get even more like on the nose exactly where we need to be with this. I think we're gonna get even better with the methodology I think that innate ability to decrease pain and increase functional capacity. So I believe that we'll actually see decreased amount of orthopedic surgeries. And most importantly, you know, I would love to prevent more shoulder replacements, knee replacements, those kinds of things. Those are my two biggest body part passions, I would say. I think that we are going to see that because what we're seeing in our field in orthobiology to regen and ultrasound guidance, I see it just like exploding. Right. And so I think patients are going to what even like 10 years ago, you know, I'm asking patients or my dad, people don't know about PRP. That's changed. People know about platelet -rich plasma. They know about some of these therapeutic modalities. they've they have somebody that they know that have done it done well or they've heard it in the you know the general ethos of the of the environment I feel like we are going to see less times where we need surgery now can't put your numbers on that all that kind of stuff but I think that orthos are coming around too the surgeons we know I mean on your on your summit how many orthopedic surgeons do you have and how many of them are talking about surgical methodology probably not a ton that are talking about this is my you know this is the way I do this surgery right there I would assume that a lot of them are talking about this is how I prevent surgery yeah and so I think that's amazing right now we're still as big and as much that this field is expanding. We're still learning a ton. Things have changed the last few years that I've been in practice. Like we actually are changing how we do things because there's better outcomes if we do it this way. Right. And so I think, you know, to all that stuff, I'm not quite sure. Or what, you know, is there going to be a brand new procedure? I don't have my crystal ball for that, but I do think that we're going to see less surgeries. I think that we're going to see even better outcomes with orthobiologics in particular and then also I wanted to add energy modalities right we have been having tremendous results with MLS you know class four laser right near infrared laser multi -locked multi -lock system I feel like we've been having tremendous results as that for monotherapy it very much pairs well with PRP but for some of my like not as severe cases or early kind of injuries I use that to calm things down before I do PRP or I use that as my solution and longitudinal care and program after PRP right I mean increase anti -inflammatory cytokines increase vasodilatory effects in particular nitric oxide mitochondrial stimulation and amplification these are the coolest things I think that we just have some really cool areas is we implement shockwave actual shockwave there these are all m like energy modalities right and so now there's this push and when did it happen I think it was the last few years ago mostly was it for some reason I have COVID as like one of the kind of maybe bookmarks of that but I'm not quite sure but I've seen a lot of people wanting a more natural solution to their problems. Not necessarily just medicinal, but how do we amplify the good parts of you, right? How do we amplify the healing parts of you and have a good healing environment and an environment not that just kicks the can down the road,
[30:55] Colin Rigney: But
[30:56] Dr. Tom Sellers: That is a good micro environment for the joint health, for the tendon health, for the soft tissues. And so I've seen that completely changed right like people are more open to these things right like energy modalities like laser like shockwave like and injection therapies like PRP, MFAT BMAC all that kind of stuff so I think that we're going to see more of that and there's going to be more demand for that because people don't for the most part don't want surgery they don't want to be cut they don't want that trauma of the surgery they don't want titanium in their bodies they don't want all that stuff and there's still going to be times where we have to do that right but I think for a huge swath and group of people, I think it could be available. Yeah.
[31:40] Colin Rigney: So the, where's the biggest gap right now between where it's headed and the education piece. So if you were to wave a magic wand and
[31:52] Dr. Tom Sellers: Expand,
[31:54] Colin Rigney: Expand the reach, like how would you get more people to come? When I say people, patients to know that there are other options other than like the traditional course of orthopedic management, pain management?
[32:10] Dr. Tom Sellers: I think it starts right here. This is what we're doing right now. And, you know, that's what I'm doing, right? I'm, you know, you don't. And again, I hesitate to kind of make this analogy, but you don't want to, you can preach from a small little spot, a small group of people, and it still can be very meaningful, right? And so for me, this is a passion of mine so I like to talk about it right but it starts grassroots it starts with podcasts it starts with online presence social media it starts with just me talking to the patient right and so how we can get it to the global public more and more I think it has to start at owning your block your neighborhood your local environment and to teach your patients because ultimately a huge part of why I like being a physician is the education piece right I love to educate I love to I and that's my ultimate goal right like you said something like that like educate and guide right like these are these are that my job this is my job right it's not my job to sell somebody on something to say you have to do this my job is to diagnose educate and ultimately guide right and so that takes two to tango right that takes two different entities due to two different people that have autonomy, right? And so I, you know, for me, the education piece is huge, but I think that they can start right with one -on -one. Now, again, that's not extrapolated to the whole general United States population or anything like that, but I think that it starts like that, right? And so, and I think that there's, in some ways, some social media video is not going to make that more impactful for the person that happens to see it online right it's an important part of expansion but for me it happens in the exam room one -on -one talking it through what I do what I what what's my limitations what are our goals what is possible with this and not possible right what's it's not none of what I do is magic none of it will magic eraser everything all your issues will go away and all your dreams will come true but what I have found is that I help people tremendously with pain and function they get better right now that is an amazing thing right and it excites me as you can probably hear from how I'm speaking it excites me right I love keeping people away from surgery I love helping people regain their function get back to doing what their love they love while using their bodies innate ability to heal yeah well
[34:43] Colin Rigney: Said well said yeah the body is regenerative in nature and I think that gets lost in the education piece with the public especially when it comes to like the dogma associated around like traditional treatment options PT cortisone bracing surgery right in all of that right there's there there's value in that for the right person right but in all of that none of none of the education very little of it is focused on you know your body's innate ability to heal itself and so you know what you're describing is like that's exactly what you do you just you just use the tools that you have to augment the body's innate ability to regenerate right and so that's the most fun thing and is that you know to see the light bulb go on with the patient you're the patient in front of you you're describing their case and their symptoms their data their diagnosis and recommending you know the best treatments to that require the least amount of you know violation of tissue yeah
[35:49] Dr. Tom Sellers: Absolutely no can't agree more the for me that hark that that's that goes back to my position as a doctor of osteopathy a D.O. right like obviously and I went to an a traditional allopathic md residency and an md fellowship right like these are traditionally those you know programs but still I have that's one of the osteopathic principles is the body's innate ability to heal and it's rung true for me it's an amazing piece for me and it resonates with me tremendously my dad's a D.O. so I've seen you know, D.O.s that profession change as time goes on that we can that there was some I don't know if prejudice is the right word but there was some you know they were a little bit more ostracized even back then my dad could only practice in one hospital in all of Arizona that's all he could do no other no other hospital in Arizona took D.O.s and now we're seeing that with this new niche in medicine and you know we're seeing that we can have the traditional knowledge base that we all learn in medical school all learn in residency and fellowship but we can also try to have that osteopathic principle vibe whatever you want to call it that has philosophical difference right it's that we're looking as the at the patient as a whole we're looking at how can we expand and amplify the things that are good about you that work right and so
[37:21] Colin Rigney: That's
[37:22] Dr. Tom Sellers: Been it's funny because I didn't always care you know about I thought it'd be cool to be a D.O. like my dad right but it wasn't like I was rah-rah D.O. forever right it's but it's fun to like go back like wait I think this is amazing, the D.O. right like it's yeah I think it's been like completely eye -opening as I've continued to progress in my career how much I do love that right that piece right because I think for a lot of people it's like well it's med school's med school I just got to get through so I can be a doctor right but for me it's funny going backwards thinking backwards and then where I am right now how proud I am to be a D.O.
[38:08] Colin Rigney: Amazing. Ryan, anything else?
[38:13] Ryan Martin: No. I've been sitting here listening to this. This is one of my favorite podcast episodes for sure. Obviously, knowing you and your father for as long as I have, you know, just listening to you and how you've grown and how you've actually, you know, gone from when I first met you until now and seeing your passion for what you're doing. I think it's so awesome, you know, and especially hearing you talk now and I'm listening to your podcasts, you know, so I try and catch what you're talking about. And so you're doing some awesome stuff, you know, not just in the clinic, but outside the clinic. So really happy to know you really, happy to see what you're doing. And I'm super happy that you came on today to talk with us. Yeah.
[38:55] Colin Rigney: And it's funny, your dad, your dad's the connection to all of us here. I was I was working at your dad's office up in what was it Peoria that's our Glendale or something like that and
[39:06] Dr. Tom Sellers: That's where I met
[39:07] Colin Rigney: Ryan and then and Ryan came and took my place up there and then you know seeing you come in and I think you were probably you're out of high school I know that for sure I don't you were at U of A at some point and I just remember at the time like you know you were like you didn't you didn't know exactly the direction you were going you didn't know if you're going into medicine or not and now you know these years later it's just like you know over 10 years later really you know we're all sitting here and we've we just had a front row seat to you know each of our each of our journeys so
[39:39] Dr. Tom Sellers: It's
[39:40] Colin Rigney: It's really a pleasure to have you pleasure to have you
[39:43] Dr. Tom Sellers: Finally yeah it's a pleasure to know you guys and what you're doing for the industry for the for the profession for patients right like this is amazing stuff I did graduate 24th grade eventually, which my dad was really proud for me, finally graduated. But I think what you're doing with ultrasound, where you're making systems, a system that is something that can be very hard to replicate unless you're elite level ultrasonographers like yourselves, but is something that can fit an individual provider, person, student, right, that can fit within their world, that's malleable, but still covers all the bases, all of the major points that gets them exam ready, because even though it's annoying, that's part of it, right? Right. And to get them one on one reps and one on one mastery. Right. And so like that, I think what you're doing is this tremendous. And I think it's going to I think what you I think you guys are changing it to like you might not be doing orthobiologics yourselves. Right. But you are you are helping everyone that's in this field get more accurate and efficient care. Right. You're getting and get more accurate and efficient diagnoses. Right. And so I just think you're doing a tremendous job for the profession. And I think AMSKU is just top notch with that, right? Like it's just, that's the place to be if you want to learn ultrasound, right? If you want to do it the correct way and have longevity for it and not just, you know, pick up a book, you know, after your kids go to sleep and read a couple chapters and fall asleep or go to a weekend trip where you learn it and then don't touch it again for six months. And then you lost every tiny little minute skill that you got on that weekend. If you're serious about it, then I think you guys are the best place to be for ultrasound learning and ultrasound mastery. Thank
[41:56] Colin Rigney: You. We think so too, but we're biased. Yeah.
[41:59] Dr. Tom Sellers: Yeah. And also I'm excited. The Probe to Practice podcast. I got my own podcast Pain to Progress. So we all, we both love P alliterations. I guess, the, I love, Colin, I had Colin on Ryan. I want you on too soon, but I had Colin on recently, a couple of months ago and we just had an awesome discussion. Yeah. So I, and we really just kind of lost ourselves in the podcast there. Cause all of a sudden it was like, you know, however long it was, it's not two hours, but it was something really long, right. And it was, and it's just fun to talk to you guys. It's fun to talk about this stuff. I'm obviously passionate about it. I'm so excited, for your guys, For your global summit, your annual global summit, I think it's just tremendous what the people, the people that you have on this thing, right? They're really the leaders in the field. They're pushing the field to, and that's an important thing, right? Like we can get trapped in, and most of the other people that I see that, no, I shouldn't say that as a blanket term, but a lot of people are like, I've done this for 30 years, and that's how I do it, right? right? The people that you have on your panel are not like that, right? They want to push the envelope in a great, safe way. They want to push the profession and the subspecialty to make sure that we demand that results and outcomes are better, right? And I think that that's kind of a beautiful way of medicine. Lately, we kind of have been falling into the trap of what's covered through insurance, what's traditionally taught, what system globally, what system do we use? and we just do that and that's what we do and why do we do it I don't know because insurance covers it I guess I don't know that's what we do right and there's not a lot of brain power in that so I think that what's cool about this group that you've assembled and what we I you guys do and what I do and my practice does is that we're trying to advance the field right that we're trying to be at the forefront of that the right way with scientific method with studies with data. Right. And so I think it's awesome what you guys do and I'm definitely going to be there.
[44:06] Ryan Martin: Yeah.
[44:07] Colin Rigney: Thank you. Yeah. It's exciting. We're looking forward to it. Yeah.
[44:11] Ryan Martin: We enjoy this ride. We enjoy this time. We're enjoying every moment of it. You know, everything has its ups and downs. Definitely appreciate the shout out to, you know, our AMSKU program. Definitely appreciate the shout out to the global summit. We're looking forward to all of those we're running short on time here but any last you know pearls of wisdom that you want to drop right now you
[44:37] Dr. Tom Sellers: Know I think I'm all out of pearls man I think that's it I love I love what we talked about today you guys are top notch top class and I think what we got going on here with my dad and I at Sellers Sports is just I think that we help people tremendously so I think that it's an easy relationship that way because everyone is really at an elite level and if they're not then they get better and better and better and grind and grind and grind until they are right and so that's like that kind of passion is infectious right and you end up like getting like -minded people around you so like you know like same philosophical people right and so you know I think that there's sometimes it's serendipitous how we all meet each other and sometimes it kind of makes sense you know hey
[45:23] Colin Rigney: Last thing tell people where to find you.
[45:25] Dr. Tom Sellers: Okay. Dr. Tom Sellers Sports medicine and family practice Sellers Sports med.com is our website. You can always call if you're interested in hearing in, you know, in getting an appointment, you have an ortho complaint, a joint pain, tendon pain, anything like that, or just need to be seen, you know, for anything, call us our numbers on that website. You can also peruse that website for some of the things we offer some more learning and education pieces. That's a great way to, reach us if you're interested in our social medias it's @sellerssportsmedfamily that's our Instagram we're on Facebook I just got a TikTok which I don't like that much but that's all right got to do it and then and then and then please check out the Pain to Progress podcast if you're interested in what we talked about today I have a lot of these guys on there anyway and we've been we just have a ton of fun on there and I'm learning more and more every time I see this I network with like -minded individuals I'm teaching patients that education piece, you know, where they can listen in the car, they can listen on their own time, things like that. So I've been really, that's something that's newer for us is that podcast. And it's called Pain to Progress, Pain to Progress. And it's a, it's on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere. Yeah. You listen to your podcast. Well,
[46:40] Colin Rigney: Thanks man. Ladies and gentlemen, Tom Sellers. Thank you for joining us.
[46:45] Ryan Martin: Thank
[46:45] Dr. Tom Sellers: You guys. All
[46:47] Ryan Martin: Right. We'll catch up with you.
[46:49] Summit ad: 10 years ago, an ultrasound unit cost $20,000 or more. Now you can run one off your phone. So the question isn't whether you'll scan, it's what you'll do with it next. I'm Colin Rigney. I'm Ryan Martin. At AMSKU, we teach clinicians musculoskeletal ultrasound. On Saturday, December 5th, we're bringing the field together for the AMSKU Annual Global Summit. One day of MSK ultrasound and orthobiologics, fully online. No flights, no hotel, no closing your clinic. The whole day is built around four questions. Where does AI fit in ultrasound diagnosis? What's next in orthobiologics and regenerative medicine? Where does point -of -care ultrasound go from here? And what does the practice of the future look like? Dr. Don Buford, Dr. Scott A. Sigmund, Dr. Mark Pietropali, Dr. Ariana Demers, and many more. Three tracks, and every session has Q &A, so you can ask them yourself. Last year, clinicians joined us from five continents. Every session is recorded, so you keep it. The best moment in teaching is when the image clicks and you stop guessing. train your eye trust your hand tickets are at summit dot AMSK you duck the next decade starts in your hands AMSK you AGS 2026 last year we wrote four
[48:10] The Kneedles: The Annual Global Summit is coming up fast. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. Here to tell us more about it, ladies and gentlemen, The Kneedles! This one's for everyone who ever injected a knee... and just hoped. I used to guess where the pain was, palpate and pray every day. Then you showed me the tendon, in real time, in black and grey. I sent them all for an MRI, six long weeks on their own. Now the answer's right there at the bedside, baby, you run off my phone. Book the day, change my plans, the next decade starts in my hands. Don't let me miss you I want to be around Don't let me miss you So much more than ultrasound Don't let me miss you PRP breaking ground Don't let me miss you Clinical pearls I found Yeah! Saturday, December 5th. Fully online. Just be there. Yeah! Don't let me miss you I want to be around Don't let me miss you So much more than ultrasound Don't let me miss you PRP breaking ground Don't let me miss you Clinical pearls I found Book the day, change my plans, December 5th, 2026, the next decade starts in your hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah There you have it, AMSKU, AGS 2026. The next decade starts in your hands. Register now at summit.AMSKU.com. Don't miss it.
